Very interesting read thanks. I’m still waiting on my Enyaq :-( so we rented a Mercedes eqb for our Xmas family expedition to Germany and Belgium. We were lucky and missed the very cold snap. We only had to queue once (nearly all IONITY chargers on our trip) and that was back in the U.K. (Kent) good humour and we were on charge quickly enough and I stopped at just past 80%. We found the eqb charged even up to 95% at 45-50kw so worth hanging on an extra 5 mins - and with no one else around that makes sense. I think more could be added to the apps such as registering into a queue and getting texts when you’re next in line and say the current cars are getting to 80% and kicking people off if and only if there is a queue.
I'm driving a PHEV so fast charging does not apply but I do agree that public chargers should be limited to 80%. Apart from the fact that it's selfish to charge to 100%, one can debate over whether the time saved by charging to 100% is actually more than the time lost by charging to 80-% and make an extra stop to charge a bit in order to get to the final distination.
I agree with you Andrew that chargers should cut out once they reach 80% and slow to trickle. Keeping others waiting when they could be on their way is selfish. I wonder how many of these drivers would have always completely filled their petrol tank? Perhaps this problem
/mindset will greatly reduce of there were far more chargers and people would spend less time charging in order to get on with their journeys.
Great read as ever Andrew thank you for sharing. I would certainly not go above 80% if there was such a queue but as I have two children the less stops the better. We did London to Manchester (R) in 4 stops because of the queues, it was fine it allows for extra loo breaks but does add to a long day.
Look forward to seeing more adventures in 2023, all the best, The Kenyons
Absolutely, but there is the argument that people going over 80% will actually take longer to complete their journey thank if they made an additional stop because of the slower charging. Sad to say I heard a few horror stories over the past few weeks, like a two hour queue at Beaconsfield... eek! Happy New Year to you all.
It seems that some Kia EV6's have battery preconditioning, and some don't, so you may want to check. I have just placed an order for a Tesla Model Y, though not so much because of that, but because: a) the EV6 now has a > 1 year waiting list; and b) the Tesla Superchargers are still unbeatable. Like you, I have found the non-Tesla charging network to be pretty patchy. Every month, there are many new fast chargers, but with so many new EV's being sold now, no matter how fast they build them, they are always full.
I am pretty sure that it will improve - at the end of 2021, there were 4,300 CCS connectors in the UK and now there are 5,908, but next year it will still be an issue. In the Netherlands, it is already much better now - there is usually no waiting for chargers except at peak times.
As for the 80% issue, I am not really sure. For example, a Hyundai Ioniq electric (not the new Ioniq 5) has a maximum charging rate of about 40 kW and that tapers futher to 20 kW at around 70% SoC. Compare that to the Porsche Taycan that still charges at 55 kW at 93% SoC. So by this reasoning, should an Ioniq Electric user stop charging at 70%? I don't think I want to get that involved in other people's lives - I'd rather travel at times that are less busy (though I admit that in the north of the UK, the availability is poor throughout the day).
Suggestion: avoid Gretna if you can. If you are going down the east coad A1M/M1, there is a cluster of chargers around Newcastle, then there's Wetherby Services near York and then either Rugby services or the cluster around Milton Keynes. If you use the west coast M6/M1, there are some petrol stations that now have large charging areas, such as MFG Crow Orchard in Wigan or Stretford in Manchester (both of those have 8 CCS 150 kW compared to just 4 in Gretna), then use Rugby.
It's certainly not a cut n dry issue, that's for sure, especially for cars with smaller batteries. However, I do think that there needs to be much better education and information about these things - I'm sure the majority of people blocking chargers are blissfully unaware of such subtleties! Happy New Year to you.
Dec 26, 2022·edited Dec 26, 2022Liked by Andrew Ditton
Well, it looks like it has it's minus points as well as plus ones!! Hopefully, something will be done to eradicate that problem and you can charge your EV at the usual rate?! Or are you not confident in that happening very soon? Anyway, beautiful scenery up there in Scotland, I think it's beautiful whatever the weather, even while I was there and it was really dull and murky, it still looked beautiful! Hope your Christmas was enjoyable! Mine was pretty good! I did have one or two gins too many though Christmas Eve and suffered the next morning! Totally self inflicted!! Have a Happy New Year too if you're celebrating it, it's my birthday on New Year's Eve so raise a glass at 11.50pm (the time I was born!) I'll wish you and yours a very happy and prosperous 2023! xxx
Interesting that the battery charges so much slower in the cold. We've not noticed that with the Zoe, but perhaps that's because it can only charge at 45kW anyway... lol. So it doesn't seem to slow down much in the cold. But it does warn the driver about limited regen braking because of a 'cold battery'. Also, I worked out that the heating uses about 3kWh per hour when the temperature is around 4-5C, heating the car to 18-19C. I'd expect that to rise quite a bit in even colder weather. When we were charging today on a long trip, we also put the heating on while plugged in to make the most of the charge!
Always the same Andrew a few bad apples spoil it for everybody else! 80% max for sure! I feel that will go away when there are many many more chargers! Cheers Chris “The Aussie living in the Netherlands “🇦🇺💪👍
Agree with the 80% rule completely.. there are some ignorant selfish individuals out there who really don’t understand what they’ve brought. It really annoys me when you get a PHEV tying up a rapid charger when there is a more appropriate option available to them! Grrr 😡
Absolutely! I'm sure many of the 'culprits' are acting in all innocence - it's not as simple as choosing between petrol and diesel - and sometimes people even get THAT wrong! ;@)
I would love to exchange my diesel-guzzling, climate-destroying, bank-account-emptying VW T6 for an electric version, but your experience highlights why it is just not yet feasible.
Right now, I can "charge" my vehicle from empty to full in about 5 minutes (about how long I have to stand next to the fuel pump).
Unless I go severely off-grid I am unlikely to be more than a few miles from somewhere I can do so.
I have a current range of c. 600 miles.
When EV offers me the same I will flatten everyone else in the race to get my hands on the vehicle keys. Until the charging network can support the number of vehicles on the road, it is not going to happen.
I really, really wish that were not the case. Where I live for half the year there is not a single EV point in the town apart from a couple of hotels, and they are for guests only. The one and only fuel station has none (I phoned recently and checked).
Check zap-map - you may be surprised. In most places there are now chargers, though they may be the slower 7kW variety where you need to leave the car overnight.
As for your VW T6: 600 miles is not going to happen any time soon, but do you really need that much? That is a full day of driving - you will need to stop somewhere to eat and you could do that whilst charging. There are already a few electric campervans around, but I'd wait until 2025 when the ID California will be available. Range on that with the largest battery pack should be about 340 miles.
Sorry it never freezes in Brisbane. Plus we only charge at home. Interesting fact, we got our electricity bill last week, charging the LEAF cost us $7 per week. That cover about 80% of our travel.
I've opted for an EV at my car renewal and it should now arrived in April (having been due last Nov). I'm really nervous about the charging situation and having read your newsletter, have to agree to the 80% limit given how inconsiderate many road users are. With an increasingly number of people opting for EV, it sounds like something will need to be done.
Yes, something needs to happen! As Andrew K has mentioned in the comments, smarter control of the chargers through the apps including a queuing system would be a great innovation, too.
Hi Andrew. Has your EV6 got a heat pump. Not sure of the position with KIA and this but I am told with Ionic 5 if your vehicle is equipped with a heat pump you should be able to get a software update to facilitate preheating the battery for a planned charging stop. By planned I mean using the vehicles propitiatory sat nav so the car knows where you want to charge. You should then be able to get the best speed the charger can give in more cases. Still need enough chargers and the other issue which is not always appreciated is not all sites are equal. A rank of Ultra Fast chargers is only a guarantee that one of then can deliver. I regularly use a site on the edge of Banbury which is supposed to have 8 x 160kW but if all 8 stalls are occupied you could be looking at as low as 20kW as the site supply is not even close to 8 x 160kW. The capacity is shared so even if you start as the only vehicle charging at a high rate as other vehicles start charging what you get goes down. Yes to managed queueing via a common app and to 80% limit if the facility for a slow top up is available.
While a limit of 80% might make sense in areas with solid charger infrastructure, I've been on routes where it was really necessary to charge to 90% or more to guarantee making it to the next charger. I took a 2700 mile road trip through California and Oregon that was mostly rural. There were a couple of times that things would have been dicey had I not charged well beyond 80%. Of course, I have a Bolt EUV so my fast charging is pretty slow to begin with and the drop off isn't as dramatic as it is with your EV6. All that said, I do wish there was better EV etiquette practiced on the road. Once I was unable to charge overnight at a hotel because the owner of a plug in hybrid had left their vehicle charging all afternoon and overnight one the only level II charger and the charger interlock engaged. They were already fully charged when I arrived and the car was still hooked up when I left in the morning. They didn't follow the hotel rules and leave their info with the desk either. Had to backtrack and pay for fast charging.
I agree with the idea of the 80% rule. But how about if the chargers knew how many other chargers were in use? Then the 80% cut-off could only be implemented if there weren't any other vacant spaces.
And it would be good if more people used the 'NeedToCharge' app. This allows someone waiting for a charge to send a message to someone who is charging.
Very interesting read thanks. I’m still waiting on my Enyaq :-( so we rented a Mercedes eqb for our Xmas family expedition to Germany and Belgium. We were lucky and missed the very cold snap. We only had to queue once (nearly all IONITY chargers on our trip) and that was back in the U.K. (Kent) good humour and we were on charge quickly enough and I stopped at just past 80%. We found the eqb charged even up to 95% at 45-50kw so worth hanging on an extra 5 mins - and with no one else around that makes sense. I think more could be added to the apps such as registering into a queue and getting texts when you’re next in line and say the current cars are getting to 80% and kicking people off if and only if there is a queue.
I think that's a brilliant idea about the apps Andrew. The queuing is definitely the most stressful part. Happy New Year to you!
My husband used to put a teaspoonful of washing-up liquid in the washer bottle and it never froze.
Top tip! Thanks Kate :)
I'm driving a PHEV so fast charging does not apply but I do agree that public chargers should be limited to 80%. Apart from the fact that it's selfish to charge to 100%, one can debate over whether the time saved by charging to 100% is actually more than the time lost by charging to 80-% and make an extra stop to charge a bit in order to get to the final distination.
Very good point Rogier! I'm sure it's mostly an education issue.
I agree with you Andrew that chargers should cut out once they reach 80% and slow to trickle. Keeping others waiting when they could be on their way is selfish. I wonder how many of these drivers would have always completely filled their petrol tank? Perhaps this problem
/mindset will greatly reduce of there were far more chargers and people would spend less time charging in order to get on with their journeys.
Indeed. It appears that the queues at chargers over Christmas made the headlines, so something needs to be done! Happy new year to you.
Great read as ever Andrew thank you for sharing. I would certainly not go above 80% if there was such a queue but as I have two children the less stops the better. We did London to Manchester (R) in 4 stops because of the queues, it was fine it allows for extra loo breaks but does add to a long day.
Look forward to seeing more adventures in 2023, all the best, The Kenyons
Absolutely, but there is the argument that people going over 80% will actually take longer to complete their journey thank if they made an additional stop because of the slower charging. Sad to say I heard a few horror stories over the past few weeks, like a two hour queue at Beaconsfield... eek! Happy New Year to you all.
It seems that some Kia EV6's have battery preconditioning, and some don't, so you may want to check. I have just placed an order for a Tesla Model Y, though not so much because of that, but because: a) the EV6 now has a > 1 year waiting list; and b) the Tesla Superchargers are still unbeatable. Like you, I have found the non-Tesla charging network to be pretty patchy. Every month, there are many new fast chargers, but with so many new EV's being sold now, no matter how fast they build them, they are always full.
I am pretty sure that it will improve - at the end of 2021, there were 4,300 CCS connectors in the UK and now there are 5,908, but next year it will still be an issue. In the Netherlands, it is already much better now - there is usually no waiting for chargers except at peak times.
As for the 80% issue, I am not really sure. For example, a Hyundai Ioniq electric (not the new Ioniq 5) has a maximum charging rate of about 40 kW and that tapers futher to 20 kW at around 70% SoC. Compare that to the Porsche Taycan that still charges at 55 kW at 93% SoC. So by this reasoning, should an Ioniq Electric user stop charging at 70%? I don't think I want to get that involved in other people's lives - I'd rather travel at times that are less busy (though I admit that in the north of the UK, the availability is poor throughout the day).
Suggestion: avoid Gretna if you can. If you are going down the east coad A1M/M1, there is a cluster of chargers around Newcastle, then there's Wetherby Services near York and then either Rugby services or the cluster around Milton Keynes. If you use the west coast M6/M1, there are some petrol stations that now have large charging areas, such as MFG Crow Orchard in Wigan or Stretford in Manchester (both of those have 8 CCS 150 kW compared to just 4 in Gretna), then use Rugby.
It's certainly not a cut n dry issue, that's for sure, especially for cars with smaller batteries. However, I do think that there needs to be much better education and information about these things - I'm sure the majority of people blocking chargers are blissfully unaware of such subtleties! Happy New Year to you.
Well, it looks like it has it's minus points as well as plus ones!! Hopefully, something will be done to eradicate that problem and you can charge your EV at the usual rate?! Or are you not confident in that happening very soon? Anyway, beautiful scenery up there in Scotland, I think it's beautiful whatever the weather, even while I was there and it was really dull and murky, it still looked beautiful! Hope your Christmas was enjoyable! Mine was pretty good! I did have one or two gins too many though Christmas Eve and suffered the next morning! Totally self inflicted!! Have a Happy New Year too if you're celebrating it, it's my birthday on New Year's Eve so raise a glass at 11.50pm (the time I was born!) I'll wish you and yours a very happy and prosperous 2023! xxx
Thanks Anne! Happy New Year to you too! xx
Interesting that the battery charges so much slower in the cold. We've not noticed that with the Zoe, but perhaps that's because it can only charge at 45kW anyway... lol. So it doesn't seem to slow down much in the cold. But it does warn the driver about limited regen braking because of a 'cold battery'. Also, I worked out that the heating uses about 3kWh per hour when the temperature is around 4-5C, heating the car to 18-19C. I'd expect that to rise quite a bit in even colder weather. When we were charging today on a long trip, we also put the heating on while plugged in to make the most of the charge!
Always the same Andrew a few bad apples spoil it for everybody else! 80% max for sure! I feel that will go away when there are many many more chargers! Cheers Chris “The Aussie living in the Netherlands “🇦🇺💪👍
Cheers Chris, we can live in hope... :)
Agree with the 80% rule completely.. there are some ignorant selfish individuals out there who really don’t understand what they’ve brought. It really annoys me when you get a PHEV tying up a rapid charger when there is a more appropriate option available to them! Grrr 😡
Absolutely! I'm sure many of the 'culprits' are acting in all innocence - it's not as simple as choosing between petrol and diesel - and sometimes people even get THAT wrong! ;@)
A great read Andrew (as always).
I would love to exchange my diesel-guzzling, climate-destroying, bank-account-emptying VW T6 for an electric version, but your experience highlights why it is just not yet feasible.
Right now, I can "charge" my vehicle from empty to full in about 5 minutes (about how long I have to stand next to the fuel pump).
Unless I go severely off-grid I am unlikely to be more than a few miles from somewhere I can do so.
I have a current range of c. 600 miles.
When EV offers me the same I will flatten everyone else in the race to get my hands on the vehicle keys. Until the charging network can support the number of vehicles on the road, it is not going to happen.
I really, really wish that were not the case. Where I live for half the year there is not a single EV point in the town apart from a couple of hotels, and they are for guests only. The one and only fuel station has none (I phoned recently and checked).
Check zap-map - you may be surprised. In most places there are now chargers, though they may be the slower 7kW variety where you need to leave the car overnight.
As for your VW T6: 600 miles is not going to happen any time soon, but do you really need that much? That is a full day of driving - you will need to stop somewhere to eat and you could do that whilst charging. There are already a few electric campervans around, but I'd wait until 2025 when the ID California will be available. Range on that with the largest battery pack should be about 340 miles.
Sorry it never freezes in Brisbane. Plus we only charge at home. Interesting fact, we got our electricity bill last week, charging the LEAF cost us $7 per week. That cover about 80% of our travel.
I've opted for an EV at my car renewal and it should now arrived in April (having been due last Nov). I'm really nervous about the charging situation and having read your newsletter, have to agree to the 80% limit given how inconsiderate many road users are. With an increasingly number of people opting for EV, it sounds like something will need to be done.
Yes, something needs to happen! As Andrew K has mentioned in the comments, smarter control of the chargers through the apps including a queuing system would be a great innovation, too.
Hi Andrew. Has your EV6 got a heat pump. Not sure of the position with KIA and this but I am told with Ionic 5 if your vehicle is equipped with a heat pump you should be able to get a software update to facilitate preheating the battery for a planned charging stop. By planned I mean using the vehicles propitiatory sat nav so the car knows where you want to charge. You should then be able to get the best speed the charger can give in more cases. Still need enough chargers and the other issue which is not always appreciated is not all sites are equal. A rank of Ultra Fast chargers is only a guarantee that one of then can deliver. I regularly use a site on the edge of Banbury which is supposed to have 8 x 160kW but if all 8 stalls are occupied you could be looking at as low as 20kW as the site supply is not even close to 8 x 160kW. The capacity is shared so even if you start as the only vehicle charging at a high rate as other vehicles start charging what you get goes down. Yes to managed queueing via a common app and to 80% limit if the facility for a slow top up is available.
While a limit of 80% might make sense in areas with solid charger infrastructure, I've been on routes where it was really necessary to charge to 90% or more to guarantee making it to the next charger. I took a 2700 mile road trip through California and Oregon that was mostly rural. There were a couple of times that things would have been dicey had I not charged well beyond 80%. Of course, I have a Bolt EUV so my fast charging is pretty slow to begin with and the drop off isn't as dramatic as it is with your EV6. All that said, I do wish there was better EV etiquette practiced on the road. Once I was unable to charge overnight at a hotel because the owner of a plug in hybrid had left their vehicle charging all afternoon and overnight one the only level II charger and the charger interlock engaged. They were already fully charged when I arrived and the car was still hooked up when I left in the morning. They didn't follow the hotel rules and leave their info with the desk either. Had to backtrack and pay for fast charging.
I agree with the idea of the 80% rule. But how about if the chargers knew how many other chargers were in use? Then the 80% cut-off could only be implemented if there weren't any other vacant spaces.
And it would be good if more people used the 'NeedToCharge' app. This allows someone waiting for a charge to send a message to someone who is charging.